Why I Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

I believe in the pre-tribulation Rapture. 

There will be a Rapture without question.  John 11:25-26 is the resurrection of the dead believer, and it is the resurrection of the living believer who will then never die.  1 Thess 4:16-18 is the perfect picture of this.

I believe the Rapture will happen before the Tribulation.  There are a few good illustrations of this.  When God saved Noah and his family before the flood.  When God rescues Lot and his family from Sodom and Gomorrah before He destroyed the cities.  And the Jewish wedding tradition (Jesus is the groom and we are the bride).  Zola Levitt has some great information on the wedding tradition.

Isaiah 26:20-21 is one of the most powerful texts.  God calls His people to enter into their chambers and close the door for a short time while He judges the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.  This text goes right along with the Jewish wedding tradition.  Also, Jesus talks about entering and shutting the door with the bride (Matthew 25:10).  Especially too because Isaiah 26:19 speaks about resurrection of God’s people.

Luke 21:36, Jesus talks about being able to escape all the things He describes previously that we might stand “before the Son of Man.”

We have to go to be with Jesus where He is.  John 14:1-3 He says that He will go and prepare a place for us.  Then He will come and take us to be with Him.  At the 2nd coming Jesus comes to the earth and stays here.  He doesn’t go back to where He is currently.  So this text in John has to be a time when believers are taken to where Jesus is currently at.  Many mansions in God’s house.  I believe that is the New Jerusalem.

Then in Revelation 3:10, Jesus says to the faithful church represented by Philadelphia, “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.”  This trial that will come upon the whole world has to be the Tribulation.  After all that is what Revelation is about with the Second Coming of Christ.

This is similar to what Paul writes in 1 Thessalonians 5:9.  In this section he is referring to the 2nd coming when he writes that we should always be awake and watch.  Then he writes, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Back in Luke 21:28, Jesus said, “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”  He specifically says to be looking when these things “begin” to occur.  He draws our attention to watch for our redemption when it begins for a reason in my opinion.

I’m watching just as He commanded us to (Matthew 24:42).  We might not know the day or the hour (Matthew 25:13), but we will know the season and when its right at the door (Matthew 24:33).

2 Thess 2:1-8 is another interesting text.  The Antichrist is currently restrained.  “…but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way” (v7b).  I think this is referencing the church.  We are the body of Christ on the earth. Jesus opens the first seal (Rev 6:2), which released the Antichrist.  So if that is correct, the Church (body of Christ) will be taken out of the way before Antichrist appears.

Update 4/19/13

The above is a vid from Steve Ben-DeNoon.  He is a jewish believer in Jesus, and he is starting a series on the subject of the Rapture.  I watched this particular video last night and I was excited!  My heart was lifted.  I wanted to record what I learned from it.

Revelation 7:9-17 is the foundational text in this section.

“9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”

Verse 9 is an accurate depiction of the Church (those called out [in the greek], jew and gentile) in heaven.  Revelation 5:9-10 the elders before the throne echo this truth in their song.  We know that the Church would come from the entire world (John 3:16, 11:52).  The Church would also be so vast that no man could number it, which goes directly back to God’s covenant with Abraham (Genesis 15:5, 17:5-7; Acts 3:25, Galatians 3:8-29).  Notice also they stand before the Son of Man (Luke 21:36).  They are clothed in white speaking of their trust in Christ being washed by His blood, and they have palm branches in their hands.

The palm branches are interesting.  We know that the people laid palm branches down before Jesus as He rode into Jerusalem on the donkey (Zechariah 9:9, John 12:13).  They have been known as symbols of peace.  Jesus entered into Jerusalem in peace.  He was the Lamb during the first part of His ministry.  The Church was to be peaceful living on the earth, and we are to make peace (Matthew 5:9).  Being the Body of Christ, we are lambs (Matthew 10:16; Luke 10:3) during this age of grace as we witness and make disciples for Jesus of all nations.

“10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb…  13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

So if these were the ones who came out of great tribulation, which tribulation is John talking about?  Steve points out that the Church as lambs on the earth for the last two thousand years have been extremely persecuted and killed.  The fullness of suffering has been poured out on the Church by the world and false religions over the centuries.  Steve points out in Mark 13:9-13 that the Church will suffer.  Some other texts on this are John 16:33, Acts 14:22, 2 Corinthians 1:5, Philippians 1:29, 3:8-10, Colossians 1:24, 1 Thess 3:4, 2 Thess 1:5, and 1 Peter 2:21.   There is no doubt that the Church has gone through tribulation for 2000 years.  Not to mention the 1000s of years of those who called on the name of the Lord and looked forward to the first coming of Christ.

Christians ‘Most Persecuted’ Religious Group in the World, Says Expert
‘Extreme Persecution’: This Graphic Shows the 50 Worst Countries to Live in if You’re a Christian

“15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.  16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.  17  For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”

This is a beautiful description of exactly what Jesus does for His church.  As the Bride of Christ we will serve Him day and night, and He will dwell with us.  Steve points out Luke 6 and what Jesus says.  His people will no longer hunger, they will be filled (Luke 6:21).  His people will no longer thirst (Matthew 5:6).  Jesus is the Great Shepherd (Hebrews 13:20), He feeds us, leads us to living fountains of water (John 4:10, 7:38), and God wipes away our tears (Isaiah 25:8, Luke 6:21, Revelation 21:4).

I believe I am convinced that the Church is pictured in Revelation 7:9-17, and that this is evidence for a pre-tribulation Rapture.  We can’t forget what is sung in Revelation 5:9.  Also, in Revelation 4:1, John sees a door open in heaven, and the voice is like a trumpet saying “Come up here.”  Which mirrors what Paul writes in 1 Thess 4:16-17, “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven (remember a door is opened in Matthew 25:10 for the bride and groom.  And again in Revelation 19:11, John saw heaven open) with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

Come quickly Lord Jesus.

Update 4/22/13

Watched part 2 of Steve Ben-DeNoon’s discussion of the Rapture in the Torah.  He taught on another really good scripture concerning a pre-tribulation Rapture in Isaiah 57:1.

“The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come” (KJV).

Steve translates this text direct from the Hebrew and the big difference is the first part of the verse.  The translation was, “The righteous can’t be found (instead of perish) and no man is taking this matter to heart.”  A powerful text that speaks directly to the point.

Update 1/7/14

Here is another text that I feel is relevant to this topic.

“They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers” (Revelation 17:14).

This text shows there will be a rapture prior to the 2nd coming because when the armies of the world and Antichrist war against Jesus at His appearing, we see that those who are with Him are His called, chosen, and faithful followers. The raptured Church who are called, chosen, and faithful.  Where did Jesus come from?  He came from Heaven with his Church.

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About Daniel Silas

www.danielsilas.com
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21 Responses to Why I Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    • Daniel Silas says:

      With all the talk about secret trade negotiations that have been going on, I am not surprised at all if there have been secret negotiations going on over Jerusalem and the evil plan to continue dividing the land of Israel. Thanks for sharing the link Steven! :)

  1. Lucy Embry says:

    you really had me until i found out u believe this & it is so false if u dont know that then u have nothing else i want to here

    • Daniel Silas says:

      Hi Lucy. Thank you for the comment. I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture because of the Biblical reasons I gave in the article. I think they are compelling, but views on Eschatology are not necessarily something we’d call an essential. Its okay to have different views.

      The question I have for you is first, what do you believe? Two, what is the Biblical evidence to support your view? Three, in light of the Biblical passages I discuss, how am I in error?

      • Are you sure it is because of Biblical reasons that you believe? There isn’t a single verse the Scriptures that supports or indicates a pretrib rapture. It can only be derived from speculation, opinion and conjecture.
        First let us start with the Scripture 1 Thess. 5:9… as usual vs. 10 is left out… We are not appointed to “wrath.” Absolute truth there, but the definition of the pretrib camp is false. Jesus defines this type of wrath in the salvation chapter… John 3… look at the last verse… 36. “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” Here we have the same type of wrath that we are not appointed to…. it is spiritual and eternal in nature. It ALREADY abides on those who are living and don’t believe. It doesn’t matter if society considers the good or evil. 1 Thess. 5:9, AND 10… we are not appointed to wrath… BUT to salvation and forever living with Him… Verse 10 defines it as eternal and spiritual in nature.
        The speculation of the pretrib view is that the words for wrath… orge, and thymos are the exact same in the Greek. They are not. It is true that MAN (who is hell bound) uses the spiritual and eternal type of wrath in Rev. 6:16,17, but that is NOT a declaration of God, rather it is man’s Man (who is heaven bound AKA 24 elders) declares God’s wrath (spiritual and eternal type) in Rev. 11:18. The bowl judgements are not this type of wrath.
        I could go through ever verse you bring up… they are all twisted as Peter mentions in 2 Peter 3:10-17 where he tells the church to prepare for the second coming. Yes, he traveled with Paul and ministered to the SAME people, yet he informs us that people take Paul’s teachings of eschatology and twist them as they always do, and then calls them wicked… NKJV. Jesus calls Peter a rock and states that on THIS rock I will build my church. Peter taught the church the second coming!

      • Daniel Silas says:

        @boldncourageous (Reply #1)

        Thanks for the comment.

        I am sure I believe in a Pretribulation Rapture because of Biblical evidence. I completely disagree with your assessment that there are no verses to support it. I also disagree that the conclusion is based on speculation and conjecture. Every verse in this article supports it. I can’t believe something unless there are Biblical texts to support it, and it was these verses that helped me trust a pre-tribulation rapture is possible.

        I say possible because when it comes to future events I always allow for the possibility that God may do things differently than what my limited human view point can foresee.

        This is a “why I believe” article. And it is okay for people to have different views on eschatology until God makes future events come to pass and our understanding perfect.

        Paul starts off chapter 5 of 1 Thess with these words in verses 1-2:

        “But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night” (v1-2).

        The context of this is the end times and the return of Jesus. There is no doubt. Which of course the context is important to understand what is written.

        Notice that Paul says in verse 4-8 that the believer who is awake, watching, and prepared will be ready and not caught by surprised.

        “But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief…” (v4).

        Why do we need to go outside of the context of the chapter to understand the wrath Paul is talking about? The context is the wrath that is coming upon the world when Jesus returns. Paul does not go into all the detail (how it will all play out) about the wrath during that time period. Instead he comforts the believers with the fact that we were not appointed to the wrath God is going to pour out on the world during those times. Instead we will be saved through Christ. It is a general statement that the believers will not be partakers of God’s coming wrath during the time of wrath that culminates at the 2nd Coming of our Lord.

        Thus we can conclude we will be delivered from His wrath at that time. It may be that He calls us out of here and hides us away in Heaven with Him as He pours out His wrath on this evil world and those who rejected the truth. We find evidence for that elsewhere in Scripture as I pointed out in the article.

        “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him” (v9-10).

        Let’s look at verse 10. Yes, Jesus died for us, and that is the sacrifice God used to save us. That is very clear. Part of that salvation could very well include a pre-trib rapture for those believers who are alive at that time of wrath that is coming.

        Paul uses the words whether we wake or sleep we should live together with Him. I think that is very interesting because of the context. He just wrote about how we should be awake and watching for Him in verse 6. Perhaps Paul means that whether believers are watching or not (caught by surprise, like being awake or asleep), when the time comes we will all live together with Him. That seems appropriate to me based on the context of this passage.

        Jesus will save His people whether they are awake and watchful or are caught by surprise for whatever reason. Perhaps at that time there will be many believers who are caught by surprise. Lack of knowledge perhaps?

        Maybe Paul is implying a rapture here that awake or sleeping (death) we believers (alive and dead) will be resurrected and caught up together to live with Him forever.

        You wrote, “…I could go through ever verse you bring up… they are all twisted…”

        Daniel: That is your opinion. I am honestly trying to understand these scriptures and share what I have learned. I am not trying to twist anything. Just because you disagree with me does not mean you should imply or condemn me as wicked.

      • Good morning Daniel, Thanks for your reply.
        You do state that you disagree, but you offer no proof. I have found this typical of those who carry your belief. You state that every article in this post supports it, however the truth is that every use of Scripture given supports only opinion. For instance, let’s look solely at your Luke 21:36 verse where you state:
        Luke 21:36, Jesus talks about being able to escape all the things He describes previously that we might stand “before the Son of Man.”
        In order to come to the same conclusions that you have, a person must already be indoctrinated with the pretrib opinions of man that the word “escape” must mean ‘rapture’ which by very nature is an assumption. Let’s look at the verse itself:

        Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man… Luke 21:36

        God Himself tells us to be praying always concerning this matter… that we might be considered “worthy…” Most people believe, as I do, that in order to be “caught up together with Him,” the sole per-requisite is salvation. Therefore to be “raptured” one must be saved. So “if” the word “escape” were to actually mean “raptured,” then why would God tell us to “pray always that we may be accounted worthy…?” Is salvation a result of a continuous prayer? NO! And what does “worthiness” have to do with salvation? That would then imply, contrary to the Word of God, that we are saved by “works” and not by grace. What an absurd idea! As a result of this absurd idea that the pretrib camp has derived through opinion and speculation, they also have divided themselves, concerning this verse, into different camps of “who is saved”,”not all who are saved get raptured”, and “what must I do to be saved?” The obvious conclusion that the pre-trib camp must arrive at to consider the word “escape” means ‘rapture’ is to conclude that, “not everyone who is saved get raptured.” What a ridiculous idea!
        If you were to ask a pretribber how they are doing concerning the command of God to be, “praying always”, concerning this matter, you will find it a mute point, and obedience to God’s command concerning “praying always” never happens. Why? Because, it’s ridiculous! Not to mention a serious lack of FAITH, “we are saved by grace….through FAITH!” To pray the prayer more than once is a lack of faith. Why would Jesus command us to practice doubt? Therefore, to believe that “escape” means “rapture” dissolves the understanding in which to pray the prayer. However, you know as well as I, that every believer who is going through trials and temptations will continually cast their cares upon Him, because He cares for us. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but God doth deliver them from them all. Ps. 91 is also a parallel passage to Luke 21:36.
        Because you have also mentioned Rev. 3:10 that has parallel understanding to Luke 21:36, and Ps. 91, I will also mention it: ” Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” Here again, we see the contingency, “because you have done this… I will do this…” Here again, a “work” is described. This promise was given to one singular church, yet the pretrib camp assumes that this is speaking of the rapture, and the teachers of the pretrib doctrine add to the book (Rev. 22:18,19) by teaching that it pertains to all the churches. I find it totally amazing how much the pretrib teachers are willing to add to the book of Revelation.

      • Daniel Silas says:

        @boldncourageous (Reply #2)

        You wrote, “You do state that you disagree, but you offer no proof. I have found this typical of those who carry your belief. You state that every article in this post supports it, however the truth is that every use of Scripture given supports only opinion.”

        Daniel: The proof is the scriptures in the original article. As I said, I believe all of those scriptures can support a pre-tribulation rapture. I went through 1 Thess 5:1-10 as well showing that I believe your opinion is in error in regard to that text.

        You wrote, “…truth is that every use of Scripture given supports only opinion.”

        Daniel: This is a “why I believe” article therefore its my opinion. That is not in dispute. We read a text in scripture and we all come to an opinion based on various factors. Hopefully those factors are proper application of hermetical tools of interpretation. I truly want to understand and believe the authors’ original words and meaning.

        In regard to Luke 21:36 you wrote, “In order to come to the same conclusions that you have, a person must already be indoctrinated with the pretrib opinions of man that the word “escape” must mean ‘rapture’ which by very nature is an assumption.”

        Daniel: I disagree with your assessment. A person doesn’t already have to be indoctrinated with the pre-trib viewpoint. The word escape could have multiple meanings, and one of those meanings could be a pre-tribulation rapture as it is an escape.

        Yes, I agree the sole prerequisite of being caught up together with Him is salvation. We are saved by grace alone, not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are made worthy to escape by the justification given to us because of Jesus’ atonement for us on the cross.

        Luke 21:36 says, “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

        Before this, Jesus lays out the clearest time line of how things are going to happen making it clear that judgement will be poured out. In v36, Jesus tells us to watch. We are commanded to watch for His coming. And He tells us to always pray that we may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass. And He connects escaping to standing before the Son of Man. I think that is a significant connection between the escape and being with Him. Are we not gathered together and with the Lord forever at the rapture of the Bride?

        In regard to your comments on this verse, I think it is important to point out that Jesus was teaching prior to His crucifixion and resurrection, so I need to take the historical time frame and audience into account when understanding “…pray always that you may be counted worthy…” Jesus is teaching before the disciples had been given the Holy Spirit and all of the post resurrection knowledge of the Gospel and all the details that go along with it like saved by grace alone and justification etc. So what Jesus said was very true at the time under the Law, and the fulfillment of that prayer would be His work at the cross. But they didn’t know that at the time.

        Also, there would be two generations. One would see the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and the generation that would see His second coming. I believe the point is that we should always be watching, always praying we can escape and stand before Him. For the generation that saw the destruction of the Temple, the idea of escape could have one meaning, and the generation that is alive at the time God’s wrath is poured out on an evil and rejecting world, the idea of escape could have another meaning such as the rapture.

        As to praying continually… we see other instances of believers praying without ceasing. Paul mentions it a couple of times how he prays without ceasing for different things and how we should pray without ceasing (Romans 1:9, 1 Thess 5:17, 2 Timothy 1:3). Its not about earning anything, but being in communication and communing with the Lord. Jesus even taught about prayer in such a way with the persistent widow in Luke 18:1-8. We should pray for our escape and not lose heart. And if we are praying to be worthy of an escape when God’s wrath comes how much more will we be living a life tuned to His standards. Not that works saves us, but true faith produces good works.

        Psalm 91 is an excellent text. Though Luke 21 is clearly in the context of future things, Psalm 91 has a different context. But it could have multiple meanings just as Psalm 22 does. In regard to Revelation 3:10, what is that the saints have done? They have kept His word and have not denied His name (v8). Again, true believers who have real God given faith will produce good works. They will keep His word and never deny Christ. While our works do not save us eternally, our faith produces good fruit that pleases the Lord. The Lord may do certain things in response to that good fruit. Notice, the saints are escaping from a very specific event… the context is not eternal salvation. The Lord will keep them from the hour of trial that shall come upon the whole world. It very well could mean a pre-tribulation rapture because the only trial I know of that comes upon the whole world is the Tribulation that occurs just prior to Jesus’ Second Coming. Trying to understand and interpret Revelation 3:10 is not adding anything to the book of Revelation.

      • Jesus taught a singular return.
        John Darby coined the word “rapture” in his book, “the Secret Rapture” in the 1800’s. Prior to that the term was not used to describe Christ’s return. Darby needed a term to describe a multiple return, that is why the word “rapture” was coined. That is not my opinion. That is a fact. I am not saying that the concept of multiple returns didn’t exist prior to Darby, but the word “rapture” to describe the return of Christ did not.
        The word “harpazo” is used 13 times in the Greek New Testament. Only once is it translated for the purposes of the pretrib doctrine into “rapture” by pretribbers. Again this is a fact.
        Margret McDonald had the ear of John Darby, who relayed her revelation of “the rapture” to John in the 1800″s. This is the origins for John’s book. Margret was a 15 yr old who got her revelation from a seance. This is historically known.
        The Scripture does not represent multiple comings of Christ. In fact, to separate the comings, one must call Jesus a liar. The church of Sardis that Christ is returning for them like a thief in Rev. 3:3. Peter tell the church that Jesus is returning for them like a thief in 2 Peter 3:10, and How the church ought to live as a result in the following verses. However, you are stating that 1 Thess. 5:1-10 where Jesus returns like a thief… is not for the church. Jesus is still returning,”like a thief..” (same exact message to the church of Sardis) in Rev. 16:15. That is right before the 7th bowl. Jesus is not a liar! If a rapture were to occur 7 years prior, He could not return, “like a thief.” There are no multiple returns as conjured up by the pretrib doctrine.

        Dangers of doctrines:

        The pretrib doctrine supporters tell us that the post-trib is very dangerous because they don’t buy the doctrine of imminence. That is, that because they don’t believe that Jesus could come at any moment, then they will live a life of sin. Their reasoning is, they claim; is that post-tribbers don’t “watch.” That very reasoning puts into question a “personal relationship with Christ.” We love Him because He first loved us. If your in it for the “fire insurance,” then you’ve missed the personal relationship side… which is salvation… not a canned box prayer that Jesus never taught.

        Peter taught the opposite of the doctrine of imminence. He taught us that we should live a Godly life because the heavens are going to pass away… See 2 Peter 3:10-14. The doctrine of imminence is conjured up by the pretrib teachers and is super-scriptural. It is more like the song for Santa Clause…”You’d better watch out… you’d better not cry… you’d better watch out, I’m telling you why…. Jesus could come at any moment….” Paul tells the Thessalonians who are going through terrible tribulation (2 Thess. 1), that 2 things must happen before we can be “gathered together with Him.” First a great falling away, and second the REVEALING of the man of perdition, who most believe to be the anti-christ… 2 Thess. 2:1-3.

        On the other hand, the pretrib doctrine has already been proven to be well used historically to cause many to stumble when persecution and tribulation come. In China in the 1930’s when the Red Curtain fell there, the main endtime view that was taught was pretrib. As a result many became apostate and turned in their fellow brother and sister in Christ. The pastors and teachers who lived through it were interviewed and when asked what is the number one thing they would change they responded how they prepared their people for tribulation and persecution. Today the pretrib doctrine is considered a doctrine of devils in the Chinese Church.

        Jesus tells us the parable of the sower… Mark 4. The only characteristic of the “stony” soil is that they are not prepared for tribulation and persecution… Mark 4:18. When it comes they IMMEDIATELY stumble. Paul tells us that the great apostasy is coming (apostasia in the Greek) which means turning away from the faith… 2 Thess. 2:3. What will pretribbers do when they are confronted with the mark of the beast? They are totally unprepared! Their babies must be fed! Peter tells us of mockers, “where is the promise of His coming?” Ask yourself… can an apostate post-tribber mock something they never believed in the first place? However, a pretibber actually believes they will escape it all. As one pastor puts it, “To Heaven with me, and to Hell with everybody else.” Only someone who once actually believed in a conjured return of Christ can mock THAT mock, and it only carries weight to those who are now confronted with the fact that it didn’t happen like they thought. Otherwise the mock is meaningless like water of a duck’s back.

        There is no danger of believing the Christ will come at the end like He states, however the danger of believing the man’s pretrib doctrine has grave consequences as we’ve already seen in China. The pretrib doctrine is ONLY believed by someone being taught by another. It MUST be taught by man. That’s how you learned it, and that’s how I learned it. It’s not in the Word.

      • Daniel Silas says:

        @boldncourageous (Reply #3)

        You wrote: “Jesus taught a singular return.”

        Daniel: In a way that is true. There is only one return of Christ at the 2nd Coming when the world will see Him in all His glory. The pre-tribulation rapture is not so much as a “return” but a gathering of the believers in Christ who are then taken to Heaven. Jesus makes that clear in John 14:1-3.

        “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”

        So Jesus taught us that He would come again and receive us to Himself, and He taught a 2nd Coming when the entire world would see His glory. I think it is clear, the world wouldn’t see Him when He gathers His people unto Himself and takes them to Heaven to be where He is prior to His 2nd Coming. At the 2nd Coming He stays here on the Earth. This gathering is a different event than the 2nd Coming because in Acts 1:10-11 the angels explain to the disciples that Jesus will one day come exactly as He left. He would descend right back down on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4) to be seen by the entire world in all His power and glory.

        You wrote: “John Darby coined the word “rapture” in his book, “the Secret Rapture” in the 1800’s. Prior to that the term was not used to describe Christ’s return. Darby needed a term to describe a multiple return, that is why the word “rapture” was coined. That is not my opinion. That is a fact. I am not saying that the concept of multiple returns didn’t exist prior to Darby, but the word “rapture” to describe the return of Christ did not.
        The word “harpazo” is used 13 times in the Greek New Testament. Only once is it translated for the purposes of the pretrib doctrine into “rapture” by pretribbers. Again this is a fact.”

        Daniel: This does not disprove a pre-tribulation rapture grounded in scripture as I have presented in the original article. In 1 Thess 4:17, the Greek is “harpagisometha,” which means “we shall be caught up” suddenly. The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek as “rapiemur” from the verb “rapio.” So we get the English word “rapture” from the Latin. I don’t see an issue with John Darby coining the phrase (if that is true) to make it distinct from the Second Coming. I’m glad you recognize that there was a concept of a rapture prior to John Darby because careful scholarship has proven it.

        You wrote: “Margret McDonald had the ear of John Darby, who relayed her revelation of “the rapture” to John in the 1800″s. This is the origins for John’s book. Margret was a 15 yr old who got her revelation from a seance. This is historically known.”

        Daniel: This is not historically known and there is quite a bit of dispute over this allegation that John Darby got his idea of the rapture from Margaret McDonald. Darby says he came to understand a pre-tribulation rapture in 1827-28. Your accusation that she received her visions from a séance is not substantiated by any historical sources that I have seen, plus she didn’t receive her “visions” until the 1830s. There is a lot of scholarship out there that disputes your statements. Perhaps you are putting the cart before the horse. Maybe Ms. McDonald’s visions were influenced by Darby’s teachings.

        You wrote: “The Scripture does not represent multiple comings of Christ. In fact, to separate the comings, one must call Jesus a liar. The church of Sardis that Christ is returning for them like a thief in Rev. 3:3. Peter tell the church that Jesus is returning for them like a thief in 2 Peter 3:10, and How the church ought to live as a result in the following verses. However, you are stating that 1 Thess. 5:1-10 where Jesus returns like a thief… is not for the church. Jesus is still returning,”like a thief..” (same exact message to the church of Sardis) in Rev. 16:15. That is right before the 7th bowl. Jesus is not a liar! If a rapture were to occur 7 years prior, He could not return, “like a thief.” There are no multiple returns as conjured up by the pretrib doctrine.”

        Daniel: The scriptures do point out multiple comings of Christ. You had His first coming where He was the Lamb of God. Then you have His second coming where He comes as the Lion of God. As Jesus teaches that He will gather His people and take them to be with Him in Heaven in John 14:1-3 as a distinct event, and He teaches He will visibly return when the entire world will see His glory and power, you are in error. Jesus is not a liar.

        Notice what Jesus actually says in Revelation 3:3, “Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.” So they will be caught by surprise if they are not watching as He commanded. If they watch, they won’t be caught by surprise like a thief coming, which mirrors what Paul says in 1 Thess 5:1-4.

        Notice what Peter writes in 2 Peter 3:10, “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night…” Peter is talking about God’s judgment. The day of the Lord is a well-known term that means the day that God’s judgment and wrath are poured out. As Jesus and Paul make clear, believers who are watching will not be caught by surprise. It is the unbelieving, God hating world that ignores the Word of God that will be caught unaware like a thief coming upon them suddenly. Or Christians who ignore the command of the Lord and do not watch for Him who will be caught unaware.

        Notice what Jesus says in Revelation 16:15, “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

        Just as Jesus has said all along, that those who do not watch and are unaware will be caught by surprise like a thief coming in the night. But, notice what Jesus says right after that, the one who watches and is prepared will be blessed. The one who watches will not be caught by surprise.

        As I’ve pointed out the gathering of the church is not a “return” of Christ. Jesus does not stay on the Earth at that time. At the Second Coming He actually returns and brings God’s judgment. I can only conclude that your presentation is flawed and lacking.

        You wrote: “The pretrib doctrine supporters tell us that the post-trib is very dangerous because they don’t buy the doctrine of imminence. That is, that because they don’t believe that Jesus could come at any moment, then they will live a life of sin. Their reasoning is, they claim; is that post-tribbers don’t “watch.” That very reasoning puts into question a “personal relationship with Christ.” We love Him because He first loved us. If your in it for the “fire insurance,” then you’ve missed the personal relationship side… which is salvation… not a canned box prayer that Jesus never taught.”

        Daniel: I’ve never said that a post-tribulation rapture is dangerous. Nor have I said anything about imminence. I think your logic is flawed. I don’t know anyone who accuses post-tribulation rapture folks of any of what you claim.

        You wrote: “Peter taught the opposite of the doctrine of imminence. He taught us that we should live a Godly life because the heavens are going to pass away… See 2 Peter 3:10-14. The doctrine of imminence is conjured up by the pretrib teachers and is super-scriptural. It is more like the song for Santa Clause…”You’d better watch out… you’d better not cry… you’d better watch out, I’m telling you why…. Jesus could come at any moment….” Paul tells the Thessalonians who are going through terrible tribulation (2 Thess. 1), that 2 things must happen before we can be “gathered together with Him.” First a great falling away, and second the REVEALING of the man of perdition, who most believe to be the anti-christ… 2 Thess. 2:1-3.”

        Daniel: Yes we should live a Godly life because God’s judgment is coming upon the world. Those who do not watch and are unaware will be caught by surprise. I’ve actually never written anything on the doctrine of imminence.

        Let’s take a look at 2 Thess 2:1-3.

        “Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition…”

        The first thing I see in this text is that Paul writes the “coming of our Lord” and “our gathering together to Him.” If it was the same event, why does Paul make a distinction between the two? Perhaps because He goes on to add some explanation in the following verses. It is very clear that that Paul equates the coming of our Lord to the day of Christ. And we know that the Day of the Lord is the time when the Second Coming occurs and Christ brings God’s judgment to the Earth against the unbelieving, rejecting world. That day will not come unless there is a great apostasy and the Antichrist is revealed. But then Paul goes on to make a very interesting point in verses 5-8.

        “Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.”

        So Paul makes a distinction between the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him. Then explains that the Day of the Lord won’t come until the apostasy and Antichrist is revealed. Then goes on to point out there is someone who is restraining the coming of the Antichrist. So look at the time line Paul lays out. The restrainer will be taken, the Antichrist will be revealed, and then the Day of the Lord will come when Jesus will destroy the Antichrist.

        I would put forward that the Church is the restrainer because the Church is the only one who is not omnipresent, so our location matters. We will be gathered to Christ into Heaven, taken out of the way. We are the Body of Christ on the Earth (Romans 12:5, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 27). We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19-20) on the Earth doing the will of the Lord (Philippians 2:13). We pray against the enemy, and we are the salt of the Earth (Matthew 5:13) that keeps it from rotting. Jesus said we are the light of the world (Matthew 5:14) holding back the darkness. Jesus releases the Antichrist as a judgment in Revelation 6:1-2 against an unbelieving, rejecting, evil world. If Christ restrains until the appropriate time, I can see the Body of Christ being taken out of the way. Then the Antichrist is unleashed.

        So look at the parallels in Paul’s text. He mentions the coming of the Lord and the gathering of the Church. Then discusses the timing of the coming of Christ. Then He discusses the taking of the restrainer.

        You wrote: “On the other hand, the pretrib doctrine has already been proven to be well used historically to cause many to stumble when persecution and tribulation come. In China in the 1930’s when the Red Curtain fell there, the main endtime view that was taught was pretrib. As a result many became apostate and turned in their fellow brother and sister in Christ. The pastors and teachers who lived through it were interviewed and when asked what is the number one thing they would change they responded how they prepared their people for tribulation and persecution. Today the pretrib doctrine is considered a doctrine of devils in the Chinese Church.”

        Daniel: You will need to provide some sources for this information. This doesn’t sound legitimate to me. Sounds like you are injecting speculation and flawed argumentation to support your anti-pre-trib views. And in the end this does nothing to further your argument that the pre-tribulation rapture can’t be found in scripture. I’ve demonstrated that it does have a scriptural basis and plenty of texts to support it.

        You wrote: “Jesus tells us the parable of the sower… Mark 4. The only characteristic of the “stony” soil is that they are not prepared for tribulation and persecution… Mark 4:18. When it comes they IMMEDIATELY stumble. Paul tells us that the great apostasy is coming (apostasia in the Greek) which means turning away from the faith… 2 Thess. 2:3. What will pretribbers do when they are confronted with the mark of the beast? They are totally unprepared! Their babies must be fed!”

        Daniel: Believing in a pre-tribulation rapture does not make believers automatically unprepared for tribulation and persecution. And it doesn’t mean that we who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture are of the stony soil. Again, flawed logic and a fallacious argument. If we are not raptured before Antichrist is revealed and I am confronted with the Mark of the Beast there is only one thing I will do. I will refuse to take the Beast’s mark, and then I will be beheaded for my testimony and belief in Jesus Christ. I’m prepared to give my life. And I’m sure that there are many pre-tribulation rapture believers who will be right behind me in line going to our death. We’ll be singing praises and worshiping the Lord until the very end.

        You wrote: “Peter tells us of mockers, “where is the promise of His coming?” Ask yourself… can an apostate post-tribber mock something they never believed in the first place? However, a pretibber actually believes they will escape it all. As one pastor puts it, “To Heaven with me, and to Hell with everybody else.” Only someone who once actually believed in a conjured return of Christ can mock THAT mock, and it only carries weight to those who are now confronted with the fact that it didn’t happen like they thought. Otherwise the mock is meaningless like water of a duck’s back.”

        Daniel: If there is a pre-tribulation rapture, which I believe will happen… then we will escape the Tribulation of the unbelieving world. It is the time when God pours out His wrath against His enemies. I’m not sure about what point you are failing to make here.

        You wrote: “There is no danger of believing the Christ will come at the end like He states, however the danger of believing the man’s pretrib doctrine has grave consequences as we’ve already seen in China. The pretrib doctrine is ONLY believed by someone being taught by another. It MUST be taught by man. That’s how you learned it, and that’s how I learned it. It’s not in the Word.”

        Daniel: Sure there is no danger in believing the rapture won’t take place until the official Second Coming. There is no danger in believing in a pre-tribulation rapture either, and your argument about China fails. Again, you are wrong. The pre-tribulation rapture has plenty of Biblical support. It is in the Word as I’ve demonstrated in the original article and our interactions.

      • 2 Tim . 2:3 (NAS) But refuse ignorant and foolish speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.
        We all know that concerning eschatology, there are quarrels and divisions in the body of Christ. If the church were to actually “hold the line” concerning speculations there would only be one view concerning eschatology. If the church took a stand against speculation, the pretrib doctrine would not exist. As I have stated before, the pretrib view is entirely a work of speculation, conjecture, opinion, and assumption…

        *truncated* – Moderator

      • Daniel Silas says:

        @boldncourageous (Reply #4)

        You wrote: “2 Tim . 2:3 (NAS) But refuse ignorant and foolish speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.
        We all know that concerning eschatology, there are quarrels and divisions in the body of Christ. If the church were to actually “hold the line” concerning speculations there would only be one view concerning eschatology. If the church took a stand against speculation, the pretrib doctrine would not exist.”

        Daniel: As eschatology is not an “essential” doctrine, I don’t see it as quarrels and divisions. Not to mention you can’t simply apply Paul’s words from 2 Tim 2:23 to folks attempting to genuinely understand and believe God’s Word. The pre-tribulation rapture is not ignorant and foolish speculation since there is a Biblical foundation for the doctrine.

        As to different viewpoints in eschatology, I see it simply as a difference of opinion. If you look back over the course of the last 2000 years, you will see quite a wide variety of opinion among the Christian writings from various brothers. As we won’t know the “perfect” fulfillment of scripture until it happens, it is okay to have various views on the subject matter.

        Division and quarrels occur when certain groups or individuals try to force everyone else to accept their opinion. You say the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine would not exist? As there is a solid, Biblical case for a pre-tribulation rapture (despite your claims), I am sure it would go right on existing as it does.

        You wrote: “As I have stated before, the pretrib view is entirely a work of speculation, conjecture, opinion, and assumption…”

        Daniel: As I have demonstrated in the original article and in this discussion, there is a Biblical foundation for the pre-tribulation rapture. The scripture references are right there, and I have interacted with them. As you have not presented an alternate, convincing interpretation of the discussed texts in the original article or the discussion… I don’t see where I have to accept your flawed reasoning in this statement.

        On that basis, I am ending this discussion with you because I don’t think it is profitable or beneficial in proceeding. I will read over the remainder of your comments. I appreciate the interaction!

        I will refer you to this article. I think Isaiah 26:19-21, 27:1 lays out the Tribulation Timeline quite clearly.

  2. I thank you for your time. May the Lord lead you into all truth.

  3. Marlene says:

    I’m with you Daniel. A Pre-Trib Rapture is clearly supported in Scripture. I’m sure what I’m about to say will be considered ‘politically incorrect’, but, well, just maybe it will change a heart or two.
    It has been my experience that if you dive down into the beliefs of those who do not support a Pre-Trib Rapture, they are most often (not always!) Replacement Theologists, or of that ilk. If that be the case, starting off with wrong doctrine has to lead to more wrong doctrine. Not understanding that God will be returning to Israel during the Tribulation will lead one to then assume that the Tribulation Saints must be the Church. They tend to miss the connection between the Old and New Testaments (the WHOLE counsel of God).
    I’ve heard it said, and fully agree with the statement that ‘If you think the Church will be here during the Tribulation, you have a problem with Ecclesiology (i.e. who and what is ‘the Church’).
    Encountering someone who believes that the woman in Revelation 12 is the Church, and not Israel is a clue that they will be ‘Non-Pre-Trib Rapturists’. That particular stance puzzles me – because, clearly, the Church did not ‘give birth’ to Jesus Christ! It’s the other way around. Jesus was born from the line of Judah, as we all know – as is without doubt or question. And the Church is His body – of which He is the First Fruits and Cornerstone. So it’s a strange position to take, to say the least.
    I’ve seen a lot of vitriol coming from the other camp – and while, I agree with you that it’s a non-essential issue in terms of salvation – I often wonder if some who hold this opposing position really are saved, considering the anger and the hate that issues forth. There is only one supernatural being that drives anger and hate.
    BTW, from my experience, those who follow Roman Catholic Doctrine tend to fit into this ‘non-Pre-Trib Rapturitis’ category. I have a good friend whom I love deeply who is in this position- and I won’t give up on her, and I continue to love her. Notice that I didn’t say ‘Catholics’ – because I also personally know some Catholics who are saved and they stay in their Church for the sake of their family. In general (though I’m not trying to paint with a broad brush – and I’m just going from my experience!!), I have found, interestingly, that many who hold against a Pre-Trib Rapture are actually anti-semetic – and may I bluntly say, Jew haters. I know that’s harsh language. But if you fit into this category, I pray that you would search your heart. If you find that deep down in there somewhere, you have a dislike of Jews…well, that, I believe, will lead you down the wrong road – scripturally and doctrinally. I do not support everything the government of Israel does, but I do obey Scripture – and I pray for the peace of Jerusalem, and I pray for all who are deceived and not born again…and I try not to hate another for their point of view or their differing take on Scripture! Remember Jesus is a Jew.

  4. Shoshana says:

    Daniel have you considered the paralellism between isa 26:20-21 and Exo 12? The way Isaiah is written it very much parallels Exodus when Israel was instructed to kill the lamb and paint the lintels of their homes with his blood (which by the way would make a modern Hebrew letter chet which means life and grace) and STAY INSIDE. They were literally told to shut themselves in their beit or houses, same as in Isa 26! Please take into account that the worst of the plagues did not affect Israel even though they were living in the area. Also take into account that Mat 24 must occur first and you can clearly see in Matthew that the WEEDS ARE TAKEN OUT FIRST, same as it happened in Egypt with the first born. Not even Noah was taken out of earth during the flood but told the same thing as in Isa 26: to SHUT HIMSELF inside while the storm passes over. Shalom

    • Daniel Silas says:

      Hi Shoshana, thank you for the comment. I appreciate the conversation.

      You make some very good points. It is true that God could very well preserve His people during the Tribulation period on Earth like He did with Noah and the children of Israel during the Exodus. But there is one very important point concerning Isaiah 26 that I believe is clear.

      Prior to verse 20 where God tells His people to enter their rooms and shut their doors behind them, the resurrection of His people from the dead takes place. So before He calls them in verse 20 where He says “Come…” Verse 19 says:

      “Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise.
      You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
      For your dew is a dew of light,
      and the earth will give birth to the dead.” (ESV)

      After the resurrection of His people and their being hidden away (as it says in v20), then God pours out His fury and punishment upon the world. Which culminates with the destruction of the Dragon in Isaiah 27:1 with His sword. That very much parallels the Book of Revelation.

      • Shoshana says:

        Shalom, yes there is a resurrection and although this may refer to a physical resurrection could it not also refer to a spiritual one? After all there will be much repentance before and when Yeshua comes so this could well be referring to a spiritual resurrection. Aleluyah!

    • Daniel Silas says:

      I believe, from the plain reading of the text, this is clearly a physical resurrection of Yahuwah’s people. In this section we see the Rapture, the Tribulation, and the Second Coming all in chronological order. I think it is an amazing section that reveals the Lord’s future plan.

      • Shoshana says:

        Hi Daniel, You mentioned the parallelism between Ex 12 and Isa 26:20-21 which earlier I noted. However this clearly speaks of ENTERING a room, beit or house, not of leaving:

        “Go, my people, ENTER YOUR ROOMS AND SHUT THE DOORS BEHIND YOU;
        hide yourselves for a little while
        until his wrath has passed by.
        21 See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling
        to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
        The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
        the earth will conceal its slain no longer.”

        In both these instances the people are told to enter their abodes and HIDE till Yah’s wrath passes. Same thing with Noah and the arc. They all stayed on earth but hidden till Yahveh consummated His wrath. First Yah or His emissaries, destroy or pass judgement on those that after many opportunities refuse to obey. This is precisely what we see happening in Mat 13:24-30 when we are told the angels of Yahveh will FIRST gather the weeds or esav and burn them. Again in Mat 24 Yeshua assures us we must first have great tribulation as the world has never seen before. Mat 24:31 does not take place (Yeshua’s return on the clouds at the sound of the great shofar) UNTIL the great suffering, including the shaking of the stars and planets (orbital changes?) described in Mat 24:29-30 occur.

        This gathering of Yah’s people has its parallels in the prophetic books where Judah, Israel, and all the grafted to Israel are gathered from the four corners of the earth to be taken to the Promised Land.

      • Daniel Silas says:

        Hi Shoshana,

        You wrote: “Hi Daniel, You mentioned the parallelism between Ex 12 and Isa 26:20-21 which earlier I noted. However this clearly speaks of ENTERING a room, beit or house, not of leaving.”

        Yes, after believers are raptured they enter into Yah’s house and rooms. So there may be a leaving, but there is also a time of entering as you say. I think we could connect this truth to what Jesus said in John.

        “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am” (John 14:1-3 NIV).

        So Jesus specifically says that are many rooms and that parallels Isaiah. He says that He is preparing a place for His people in His Father’s house. Then He will come back and take them to be with Him. Where? In His Father’s house. There has to be a time where Jesus comes and takes His people to be in His Father’s house. That tells me there is a Pretribulation Rapture prior to the Second Coming. At the Second Coming, Jesus comes to the Earth and stays here.

        I agree with you there is a place of protection like with the Israelites in Egypt and Noah and His family. But, Jesus says He will take His people to be in His Father’s house. He tells us where our place of protection will be. Isaiah 26 makes it clear after the resurrection of Yah’s people from the dead, they enter into their rooms and shut the doors behind them. Also, Notice what John writes:

        “After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven.” (Revelation 4:1a).

        In the parable of the ten virgins, Jesus mentioned a door being closed, “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’” (Matthew 25:10-11).

        So all the pieces fit together. Isaiah 26 says there will be a resurrection of Yah’s people, they will enter into their rooms and the door will be closed where they will be hidden for a little while. Notice it is only for a short time.

        Then Yah’s wrath is poured out on the people of the earth for their sins. Notice, this is the whole Earth, not just a particular nation. We know that when Yah’s wrath is poured out upon the whole earth, it is the time of the Tribulation shown to us in Revelation culminating with the Second Coming (Isaiah 27:1) where He destroys the serpent and beast that rose up out of the sea with His sword (Revelation 13:1-2, 19:11-21).

        You wrote: “This is precisely what we see happening in Mat 13:24-30 when we are told the angels of Yahveh will FIRST gather the weeds or esav and burn them.”

        Another illustration is the angels gathering the grapes into the great wine press of the wrath of God (Revelation 14), and Jesus is the one who treads the grapes acting as the Lion bringing God’s wrath upon them. These are the tares, but the wheat is taken and stored in His barn.

        You wrote: “Again in Mat 24 Yeshua assures us we must first have great tribulation as the world has never seen before. Mat 24:31 does not take place (Yeshua’s return on the clouds at the sound of the great shofar) UNTIL the great suffering, including the shaking of the stars and planets (orbital changes?) described in Mat 24:29-30 occur.”

        There are multiple tribulations. There was the terrible tribulations of Israel and Judah culminating with their destruction in 70 A.D. by the Romans because of their sins against Yah. The Church has gone through great tribulation since the time of Jesus and the Apostles because we are hated by all for His sake and persecuted. Then there is the tribulation of the sinful world who have rejected Yah and rejected Jesus. The latter culminates with the Second Coming.

        It is important to remember that Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 touched on events that would happen in multiple generations. There was the generation that experienced the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Then there is the generation that would experience the time period of the Second Coming. I find that Luke 21 has the clearest, chronological time line of the 3 chapters. Luke did set out to write an orderly account (Luke 1:1-3).

        You wrote: “This gathering of Yah’s people has its parallels in the prophetic books where Judah, Israel, and all the grafted to Israel are gathered from the four corners of the earth to be taken to the Promised Land.”

        That is true, but based on the texts I’ve discussed, I believe there will be a pretribulation Rapture of the Bride of Christ. And when that trumpet sounds, I believe it will be the same trumpet that sounds when all Israelites in the world (who have not believed in Yahushua) will return to Israel (Isaiah 27:12-13). So shall commence all that has been foretold for the days leading up to Yahushua’s Second Coming.

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