8/8/2013 – Update #1:  The hate speech page has been removed by Facebook.  I’m very pleased that they responded.

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Original news article here

This page simply makes me sad.

This Facebook page is causing an uproar about free speech and Facebook’s policy against hate speech.  There are many people who claim that Facebook has deleted their posts in regard to conservative politics and religion.  Yet, Facebook will not delete this page stating that it isn’t hate speech.  Bias?  It appears so.

Facebook Policy:

“Facebook does not permit hate speech, but distinguishes between serious and humorous speech. While we encourage you to challenge ideas, institutions, events, and practices, we do not permit individuals or groups to attack others based on their race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disability or medical condition.”

Facebook Help Section on Hate Speech:

“Content that attacks people based on their actual or perceived race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disability or disease is not allowed. We do, however, allow clear attempts at humor or satire that might otherwise be considered a possible threat or attack. This includes content that many people may find to be in bad taste (ex: jokes, stand-up comedy, popular song lyrics, etc.).”

I had a round of comments with those who support this page:

Daniel: Hate speech. Disgusting.

Commentator #1:  How so? Because FB has determined it isn’t hate speech.

Commentator #2: How is making fun of a religion and not a group of people hate speech?

Commentator #3: Religion. Disgusting.

Commentator #4: The idea that religion should be protected by hate speech is ludicrous, hate speech should protect people from traits they are born with, not from being made fun of for self conscience decisions to believe the ridiculous.

Commentator #5: child abuse by catholic priests. disgusting

Daniel:  “Facebook does not permit hate speech… we do not permit individuals or groups to attack others based on their race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disability or medical condition.”

Commentator #3: It has already been shown by facebook that this page is not hatespeech as it is attacking an idea not a group of people.

Commentator #6: And yet the page is still here after it’s been reported hundreds (or more) of times. So you’re trying to use Facebook’s terminology to argue a point that even Facebook disagrees with.

Commentator #3: Daniel, if you find this page offensive, I think that may be a problem of your own, not this page,

Commentator #7: Daniel, can you whine harder?

Daniel:  Need proof it is hate speech? Posted on this page July 19, “In case you haven’t noticed, every current social issue is the result of religious beliefs clashing with modern society. The only people who genuinely WANT to limit the rights and happiness of others are theists.”

The page is not just attacking the idea of religion, its attacking the people. All the Facebook moderators need to do is actually read through the posts.

This is a blanket statement stereotyping and vilifying people who are religious.

I don’t mind people criticizing any religion or any philosophy, but don’t attack people by saying that they all do these kinds of things. There have been countless people of faith who have fought against war, prejudice, slavery, or any other evil.

Commentator #6: While nobody can say that all members of a group are or do XYZ, you can’t possibly be making the argument that when it comes to religious people they aren’t overwhelmingly in favor of limiting the rights of others. Just because something doesn’t apply to you specifically (even though it does because you are here making the case that this page should be shut down) doesn’t mean that you don’t belong to a group where this does apply.

Daniel:  

@Commentator #6:  

You wrote:  “Just because something doesn’t apply to you specifically (even though it does because you are here making the case that this page should be shut down) doesn’t mean that you don’t belong to a group where this does apply.”

So you approve of stereotyping people and condemning the entire group because you believe religious people are in favor of limiting the rights of others. Therefore according to your logic and the comments on this page Facebook should delete it. “We do not permit individuals or groups to attack others based on…”

Commentator #1:  Daniel, sure.. but right now, it is a HUGE issue and problem. We have people trying to turn the country into a theocracy.. I will not sit back quietly while they stomp on my rights.

Daniel:  No one is saying to sit back and be quiet. I support your freedom of speech etc. Just don’t attack people because they are religious.

Sadly I hear atheists and others who hate organized religion constantly attacking people who are religious in all manners of ways. Stereotyping… labeling… vilifying… slandering… making fun of them… saying they are stupid etc etc.

Atheists and other groups don’t want to have that done to them, so why should they be allowed to do it to people of faith?

We will never live in peace as long as people on both sides do these kinds of things. We will never live in peace with people on both sides trying to force their views and perspective on the others. Let people believe whatever they want, discuss and debate, but after love one another and go have some java or something. Love people despite what you might see as flawed beliefs or whatever.

Commentator #8:  people have the right to believe what they want, just as rational people have the right to ridicule irrational sky wizards

Commentator #6:  Daniel, you are misrepresenting reality. You see two camps fighting with each other as though we’re on equal grounds. In reality, your group has been discriminating against anyone who does not share those same beliefs. Your group has been the aggressor and oppressor since its inception. Hell, the book which you call holly contains the very first insult ever put in written form against atheists. 

And saying that we shouldn’t stand up for what’s right, while also saying that you support free speech is rather absurd. What exactly do you want us to say? “Oh, please master, stop discriminating against people. Please. Pretty please.” The fact is that we don’t live in a theocracy because people like us would not be silenced and did not cower away when your people wanted to fight an ideological war by using weapons and physical harm. And your people are still at it today. And you want to complain about us verbally resisting your people’s efforts to ruin everything that we fought for over the years?

We will never live in peace as long as your side has views that require everyone to submit to them. This isn’t a matter of opinion, and who is right. Your side fights for oppression and suppression. We are simply saying that we’re not going to roll over for you without a fight. And you’re complaining that we won’t take it in silence. Awesome logic you’ve got there. Typical superiority complex.

Daniel:  @Commentator #8 – I support your right to ridicule whatever you want. Feel free. Don’t you see by saying “rational” people, you are inferring people of faith are irrational?

There are plenty of rational people who believe the universe and everything in it didn’t just pop out of nowhere for absolutely no reason. It is just as rational to believe in a First Cause as to believe in any other philosophy.

Daniel:  @Commentator #6 –

You wrote: “you are misrepresenting reality.”

I disagree as I’m not trying to represent reality. I’m simply pointing out that attacks against specific groups of people because of religious belief is hate speech.

You wrote: “In reality, your group has been discriminating against anyone who does not share those same beliefs.”

You are stereotyping. Not every single person of faith is discriminating.

You wrote: “Your group has been the aggressor and oppressor since its inception.”

That is a false statement. You don’t know what “group” I belong to. If you want to examine different religions out there let’s take one. Christianity can be an example. For the first 300 years of Christianity it was persecuted and Christians were murdered all over the world. Christianity was peaceful and all they were told to do was go out and tell others what Jesus instructed them to say. They did so out of love for their God and love for other people.

Penn Jillette (an atheist) says it best, “–how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?” Christians tell others about Jesus out of love, not out of hate. Christianity was never to be given a sword, it was never meant to be forced, and it was never meant to oppress other people. The worst thing that could have ever happened was for it to be recognized and empowered by the state (which ever one that might be). Then it becomes about power and money, and the “Church” has been led by and corrupted by people who don’t even believe in Jesus.

There were plenty of Christians as well as others involved with drafting the Constitution and bill of rights. They supported freedom of speech and religion. There were plenty of Christians who fought against slavery in England and the United States as well as other places in the world. There are plenty of Christians who oppose oppression and violent aggression.

You wrote: “Hell, the book which you call holly contains the very first insult ever put in written form against atheists.”

That might be true, but there is no evidence to support your assertion. Perhaps you are referring to Psalm 14:1? Though you can’t hold an entire group of people responsible for something that the Bible says. They didn’t write it.

You wrote: “And saying that we shouldn’t stand up for what’s right, while also saying that you support free speech is rather absurd.”

This is a strawman. I think you should stand up for what you believe is right, and I believe in free speech. What I said was don’t attack an entire group of people for the actions of some. In light of Facebook’s definition that is hate speech.

You wrote: “The fact is that we don’t live in a theocracy because people like us would not be silenced and did not cower away when your people wanted to fight an ideological war by using weapons and physical harm. And your people are still at it today. And you want to complain about us verbally resisting your people’s efforts to ruin everything that we fought for over the years?”

Your people? Which ones are those? I don’t want to live in a theocracy. I don’t want a human government to be in anyway based on religion. I’m quite independent politically and I believe in liberty.

You wrote: “We will never live in peace as long as your side has views that require everyone to submit to them. This isn’t a matter of opinion, and who is right. Your side fights for oppression and suppression. We are simply saying that we’re not going to roll over for you without a fight. And you’re complaining that we won’t take it in silence.”

Perhaps you are referring to Islamic jihadists that believe in forcing everyone to submit by violence if necessary and imposing Shariah law on everyone. Believe me I am right there with you in opposing such a thing. I’m right there with you, I wouldn’t roll over without a fight. I’m not complaining, I just don’t want you to attack religious people by stereotyping etc etc. That goes against Facebook’s written policy.

You wrote: “Awesome logic you’ve got there. Typical superiority complex.”

Ad hominem will never win you any kind of debate that uses logic, rational thought, or reasoning.